Your question was: To really build big muslces do we need all those products at VitaminShoppe like creatine and NO2?.

The deca and sus approach is a fairly old fashioned one, or so I hear..

How about something along the lines of test EQ for 12 - 14 weeks? Bump the test to 500mg....

HCG throughout the cycle, PCT nolva/clomid with proviron or aromasin.

Nick..

Weeks 1 - 8.

500mg Test E.

Weeks 9&19.

100mg Prop eod.

Weeks 3/5/7/9.

500iu's HCG eod.

PCT.

3 days after your last Prop jab 40mg Nolvadex ed for 7 days then 20mg of Nolva ed for 14 days.

This pct along with the HCG should go along way towards you keeping alot of your gains....

Diet is also key especially if you are losing the gains you have made over a long period.....

ALRIGHT GUYS my mate has smashed his sterile water for his growth(idiot).

Anyone know where I can buy some dont need a source but just want some water, I have found one site selling water, this may sound stupid but is sterile water for eye wash the same as sterile water for mixing growth. anyone know where I can get some thats great...

Bacteriostatic water is what you need... theres an ad for omega labs on the main forums page.. contact them they may be able to help!..

Because you don't need it....it is placed in the cycle to sort of gently kick start the testes back into action so recovery is easeir and quicker so every other week from week 3(before this is a waste as your HPTA will not of started to shutdown by then) will not desensitize the leydig cells in my opinion......

Thanks, i'll bear that in mind for mine, I was currently planning 500iu twice a week 3 - 9, I will only do that if i'm very shutdown.

Nick..